Transfers - season 2011/12

Zyta, did any team win many titles without at least two or three best in world players? Name one ;)

HA! Again this thing about Nikolov, the same guy who was already so great and a star, before he came to Trento. You change facts to fit them to your theory.


If you want to base your words on stats, show me mathematical formula for this particular situation. Besides no matter of luck and players? Yeah, sure, take away Matey and Juantorena and check what Trento is gonna win then.

And hypocrisy one more time. You telling Pesazi about his arrogance? What about you and your arrogant, ignorant "experts" about us? Next time look at yourself first, darling.

Last edited by Zyta on 01:21 30/03/2012.

I wish I would see Sokolov play. But in fact, his own national coach benches him in almost every match. And then he throws him into the deep end in the CL semis in a crucial moment. I guess you know how the set ended.
Whatever, Stoychev has several occasions in the next month to prove himself.

All of the "experts", look footage of play of Juantorena or Nikolov before Trento and compare with the play afterwords. Yoiu have to be blind not to see what is he doing with the boys in his team. See Sokolov in Marek and in Trentino, see Stokr, see Birarelli, see Sala's serve.I never said he is brilliant tactician, but he is still great as coach and remind you - statistically is impossible for bad coach to have such long series of wins no matter of luck and players. You all argue with mathematics, which is quite laughable, I would say.

+100 Zyta

Thanks Zyta & champion to save me further work. There's not much to add.
Of course Stoychev has qualities too. Saying he was a bad coach in every aspect of his work would be quite dumb. But his quality is more to be able to keep such a team, composed with stars who have an ego, together and keep them motivated after so much success. He didn't proof any outragious tactical knowledge so far.
He composed a team, that simply runs over almost every other team. As soon as Trento had to face a team that was able to hold up physically, and was coached better, Trento's flaws were bared. That team was Kazan. To quote myself from 01.01.12:@rayray: Does your obsession with Bulgarian players/coaches really go so far, that you call me "arrogant" and "mediocre of mind" for not sharing your opinion about their greatness? Learn a lesson from champion. He is objective and kind.

Last edited by pesazi on 15:09 29/03/2012.

Zyta, great objective analysis! You nailed it!

In today’s world being a great & capable coach, does not necessarily mean being a successful coach. I agree, that Stoychev is not a great coach. He is exhausting his players too much & does not focus to make them complete players. It’s impossible for him to be a great coach, when he is a product of the Bulgarian limited system himself. Anyway, what he has achieved so far is remarkable IMO. He came from nowhere, did not have a great experience as a player, had to play it smart all way long, but he made it. Yes, I know he picked great players to get there, but people say – your team is as strong as its weakest link. The fact that he never had players dragging his club team down, it’s not to be ignored. About his work with the NT so far, there are few pros & cons to be considered. It’s not all black & white. First of all he landed in the snake nest of our federation. The federation is pressing Rado (and all previous coaches) big time in order to make money from transfers. Rado denies that himself, but I don’t believe him anyway. Salparov was injured last year. Our team without him lost not only a good libero, but its “heart” too. Salparov is a great leader & makes a huge difference by uniting the team, encouraging them & lifting them up. 1 year is too short time to judge, if a coach is any good or not. Rado is still too young & “green” to be compared to Rezende, Velasco, Hoag etc. With time he will learn from his mistakes & will get better, because he is hopeless perfectionist.

Ralight Nawrocki is wining everything in PlusLiga as well. Talking like some blind fans of Skra (not all of them are blind) he won bronze and silver in CL. But are you gonna call him a great coach? No, his successes depends on his players. NightFox and I said we will see real strength of Stoychev with the national team. How many great players he created there so far? Penchev who was called to NT before, by Prandi? Or Skrimov, who was ignored by Rado so long? Wining with Matey, Osmany, Nikola is not artistry. Getting to Final Four with weaker teams which you improve and motivate, like Hoag is artistry. Doing something from nothing like Velasco in Iran is artistry. Winning for ten years, even without Ricardo, like Rezende is artistry.
Being "fresh" coach and handle and keep together such difficult character and experienced players like Grbic, Mastrangelo, Nikolov, Henno and Wijsmans is something big.
Guidetti said few days ago in interview for one polish website, that great coach is not only this one who wins a lot, but the one who every day teaches his players something new.
About this creating great players, you already lost yourself in your own opinions. Once you said Rado created Nikolov, then you said Nikolov was already a big star when he came to Trento. And before you will mention Riad, or even Winiarski, you should remember about their injuries which they got thanks to this coach, same with Kaziyski now, after this season with NT he will be shadow of Matey from the past. Creating new players is great, but not destroying them is even better...

Last edited by Zyta on 11:30 29/03/2012.

You gave impression how much you understand what Stoychev is doing in Trentino. He doesn't succeed because he has bunch of great players, he makes the great players, which is the big difference with your favorite coach who I think is not that good. And I think it is quite arrogant from your side to neglect the wins of much more accomplished than you coach and to deal with his long series of tropheys as "accidents", "big players carrying him on their shoulders" and other pseudo-arguments. Arrogance masked as sarcasm is mark for mediocrity of the mind, not for extreme inteligence. The inteligent people try to be humble at least.

...or not sign bond with Trento, but go somewhere where you will play as a starter...

Why is that?

If you do not want to be the alternative to Rapha, you can give on loan!

Last edited by marchst on 20:06 28/03/2012.

marchst - So Trentino's setters are going to be Rapha and De Cecco! Something is wrong

The mere fact that you think I'm comparing something exposes you. I just tried to give an impression of the meaning of awards.

Last edited by pesazi on 23:04 27/03/2012.

And your comparison makes any sense

I keep Stoitchev. Giuliani left him willingly in Macerata. As I hope that there remains Travica.

And Wlazly was awarded MVP at the CL F4

pesazi, Stoychev was awarded best coach of Serie A1 last year

Rapha will remain in Trento.

De Cecco,I would like now to Trento

Last edited by marchst on 19:35 27/03/2012.

Sorry, I didn't get it. Do you mean Raphael will stay in Trento and De Cecco wants to play in Trento even if Rapha stays? Do you have any sources for that?

Do not think Italian ancestors. Then in Italy is not so rapid and automatic.

Pesazi, there was a fundamental error in my puzzle, which you discovered. I got delusional that Conte plays as an opposite & that’s why I moved Sokolov to be a wing-spiker (shame on me)

Marchst, citizenship could be taken not only through naturalisation. If there was some Italian granny/grandpa in Djuric's family, apart from the Greek & Serbian relations, he can take the passport very quickly - within 6 months usually. Again this is hypothetical & might not be the real scenario.

Djuric is impossible to become italian.

Trento with a spiker stranger in the place of Osmany must take an MB italian.

Sokolov is good to do the opposite.

Rapha remains ,however De Cecco would immediately.

Last edited by marchst on 18:30 27/03/2012.

You're right, I actually did misunderstand you in your thoughts about Trento's system.
If the rumors about Monza are true, what I'm not sure about because I heard different things, I still don't see the reason why you think they should let Sokolov play as a wing spiker and Conte as opposite. To me it sounds more logical to take either Sokolov or Stokr as an opposite and let Conte play on his used position, even if he plays opposite sometimes.
In general, I don't like the switch from opposite to wing spiker that much. Sokolov's case reminds me of Grozer, who did the same. He had a decent reception and could have continued as a wing spiker, but in the end he didn't because he simply has the mentality and the talent to be even better as an opposite. Sokolov has such a talent, I don't like the idea to make him change the position.

As for Djuric, I don't know about the legal position, but two additional citizenships within six years is definitely special.

@le_bullit: i didn't hear about that.

Last edited by Jurij-kk on 18:03 27/03/2012.

Rumor on a french forum Pierre Pujol ( setter in Fart kielce Poland ) would be back in Cannes ( french ligue A ), anyone has any information ?

Pesazi, I think I was not clear enough in my previous post & you misunderstood me in a way. Trento’s situation is a bit different than Macerata’s one. The common thing between them is the word “experiment”, but in practice (“hypothetically”) they will be different experiments.

Macerata will try to move a wing-spiker to be an opposite or get each wing spiker to play as an opposite in certain situations (sth similar Abondanza started doing with BUL women NT). For Trento Sokolov will change position completely from being an opposite to being a wing-spiker. Conte will remain an opposite to take max advantage from their long term working with De Cecco. Besides, I heard rumors that Dzuriz can take Italian passport & not count as a foreigner any more. Also with a better libero than Bari, the weak reception of Sokolov & Kaziyski wont be so bad. Juantorena never was a great receiver either.

My thoughts could be completely wrong & against all logic, I accept it. But bare in mind from business point of view is cheaper to buy players from a club in financial difficulties, especially if Monza has a lot to offer. Stoychev might not be a great coach (which is bad for his players ofc), but he has other qualities that compensate for it. Otherwise he won’t be that successful.

@champion: You think the third wing spiker/opposite would be Kaziyski? I know you said "hypothetically", but seriously, I don't see any sense in this. Why would you like to have three at most average receivers on the court and turn an opposite into a wing spiker, without getting any advantage from it? Moreover you would bench Stokr.
Also it's hard for the setter to alternate between two opposites. I was surprised when Copra tried it, now I am sure that this system will not be seen in any top club these days.

Last edited by pesazi on 16:13 27/03/2012.

Hypothetically speaking Trento might be planning a similar experiment like Macerata. Get De Cecco, Conte, the libero of Monza and re-qualify Sokolov as a wing-spiker (BTW, Sokolov was playing as a wing-spiker in his Bulgarian club few yrs ago & has been training his reception this year). The curious part will be whose experiment will be more successful, if both of them go ahead. If both of them fail, Copra will take the lead next year.

Last edited by champion on 15:44 27/03/2012.

Omrcen is going to play in Japan next year, so Lube needs a new opposite. At first they thought about Lasko, now it seems pretty clear they have changed their mind and chosen Zaytsev. And Zizzo himself said (in the interview that Kjeldhor linked here below) that he's not afraid of changing role and playing as a pure opposite if necessary.

@Jurij-kk: whatsoever, a reliable opposite is absolutely essential in today's game. Plus I think Zlatanov and Marshall fit better in this role than Savani and Zaytsev do. Imho Macerata would make a crucial error in not taking full advantage of Trento's weakness by showing up with such experiments.

Bulgarian media came up with “news” 2 days ago, that Trento might merge with Monza. I have no idea how fake or truthful this could be. If that’s the case however, the plan with Zaytzev could have changed, if ever existed on the first place.

pesazi
i think copra didn't fail because of the system, but because of injuries. They lost the best players near to the play off at 09/10 season and they couldn't play their best volley.

Last edited by Jurij-kk on 11:28 27/03/2012.

If that's true, this would be an awful plan by Macerata. There are good reasons why the game gets more and more specialised, and Copra already failed with the same system. Btw, what will happen with Omrcen? Did I miss something?
Zaytsev does exactly the right thing. In Macerata he plays next to Travica and has a better coach than Stoychev. Plus, Macerata is more balanced, with can only be helpful for a young player to make further progress.
In my opinion, there are good chances that Trento will not only lose their dominance at international competitions, but will also have problems in the A1 withhout Juantorena and probably Raphael. With Zaytsev and the right system, Macerata will definitely be able to be the better team.

Kjeldhor thanks. it will similar to copra style when there were Mrashall Bravo and Zlatanov

wing spiker, but whit a game-play similar to the old cuban style,

Parodi near Travica will be only a wing spiker, Savani and Ivan wing spiker when they are in the 3rd meter or opposit if they are in teh second line

Zaytsev in Macerata... in my opinion good idea, but i can't imagine at what position? My italian is poor, so i'm not able to understand. He will be wing-spiker or spiker?

Last edited by Jurij-kk on 21:57 26/03/2012.

But as opposto...? What's with Savani?

Zaytsev in Macerata would be a dream come true for me.

Big mistake for Zaytsev

dunno if Macerata will play with 3 wing-spiker or wanna sell Parodi or Savani (but i don't think Savani will return in trento again)